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Post by Incubus on Dec 8, 2004 10:26:52 GMT
Seeing as the two main parties, Labour and Conservative are becoming more and more alike in terms of key policies, does this mean that eventually, seperate ideologies will die out all together?
I for one would gladly look forward to this day.
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Post by Naselus on Dec 8, 2004 16:57:19 GMT
No. The Tory's are a dying breed, and quite some way past they're sell-by date. The Lib-Dems'll overtake them soon, and maintain the status quo.
And the death of seperate ideologies would be a bad thing. It would kill all remaining sembalance of democracy in this country, and give leaders a licence to invade as many small sovereign nations as they like.
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Post by HStorm on Dec 8, 2004 17:18:48 GMT
The death of ideological variation would (and indeed is already starting to) take away alternatives and new thinking. This would be a disaster in times of serious hardship, when fundamental changes in policy would be needed to resolve matters.
I do agree it would be a good thing to get rid of the silly tribalism in political debate, especially the daft "I disagree with you because you're in a different party to me" routines that Parliament gets into.
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Post by ringmasterrob on Dec 8, 2004 20:23:03 GMT
Indeed, with the sacking of Boris Johnson then Michael Howard and his cabinet are in the same position as Iain Duncan Smith was. He is the unknown leader of a shadow cabinet of nobodies, Howard and his motley crew aren't instantly recognisable, especially to those with a lesser grasp on politics. I doubt very much that Tories will be able to make up for much in the next general election, especially with Howard's fixation on moaning about Paxman not liking him rather than trying to win votes.
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Post by TheCritique on Dec 9, 2004 17:04:40 GMT
You say that, but look at the state the Labour party was in around Thatcher's reign. They looked like the dying breed, and the Lib-Dems weren't serious contenders.
This is all a cycle. As we know, Major was so disasterous (Back to Basics comes to mind), and due to the recent reforms of the Labour party (Blair) the Tories were thrown out of office and Labour took power. Now it looks like the Tories are a dying breed.
Don't think that this sort of thing won't happen again. Who knows; a decade or two and the Conservatives could have been completely reformed and are about to march back into office, throwing out the now useless Labour government which has become completely and utterly disconnected from reality. The only difference will be the Lib Dems will be bigger contenders this time round. But who knows? They say a week is a long time in politics. Now we're thinking decades.
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Post by Naselus on Dec 9, 2004 18:30:23 GMT
Don't think I've just been fooled by their current weakness, Will. The Tory's have been falling to bits for years, even while Thatcher was in power.
The Tory back benchers are mainly the worst kind of political sleazebags, purely in it for the opportunities offered for corruption. The central leadership has no real control over them outside of possibly blackmail. Hence, the party is weak. Labour were never in so bad a state as this, and now the only thing which can save the Tories is a strong leader, before it's too late. Unfortunately, they haven't got any candidates with the ability to lead AND the ability to get into a leadership position. It's too easy for them to have a useless dunderhead in charge than some one who's actually trying to win elections, for christ sake.
They've grown completely stagnant, their entire selection of policies have been stolen by other parties, and they're leaders are idiots. Boris Johnson was the only Tory anyone liked, and they fired him. They're stance on Europe's been stolen by UKIP, their stance on everything else has been commandeered by Tony Blair. They're dying, and badly. Thatcher was their last hope, and they rebelled against her. Now they're just going to quietly fall to bits over the next ten to fifteen years.
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Post by Thanatos on Dec 11, 2004 12:32:14 GMT
They were in power for eighteen consecutive years and during that time they so changed the political climate of this country that the other main party (and, to a lesser but significant extent, the third) adopted their policies and ideology. Hardly a dying breed - conservatism, under whichever party, remains firmly in the ascendent in Britain, most unfortunately.
Socialism will probably revive - the left-wing sentiments of Labour's membership will inevitable tell on the leadership's nature eventually - but speculation is pointless. Who'd have thought that about thirty years after Harold Macmillan compared the idea of privatisation to "selling off the family silver" and ten years after Ted Heath actually nationalised the aeronautical section of Rolls Royce that privatisation would become a government's flagship policy (or that the leader of that government would be a woman)?
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Post by Naselus on Dec 11, 2004 17:36:27 GMT
Wonderfully strident post, Thanatos, but I never said the conservative ideology was dying. I said the Tory PARTY was. And I stand by that.
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Post by Thanatos on Dec 12, 2004 16:35:29 GMT
As Critique has said, even that is too much to assert with confidence: Labour looked moribund not so long ago. Speculation of this nature is usually fairly pointless and, if accurate, only as a lucky guess. Who was predicting the fall of the Berlin Wall as little as six months before it occurred?
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