The NSA's massive database & the fight to stop it

[modeski]

It goes without saying that the Bush administration loves to spy on it's own people. Total Information Awareness, Echelon, Homeland Security, unlawful wiretaps..the list goes on.

The latest on this issue is that the top phone companies in the US (AT&T, Verizon and Bellsouth), are helping the National Security Agency (NSA) to construct a database of American's phone calls, with a goal of tracking "every call ever made" in the country. This process has been ongoing since 2001.

Check out this article at USA Today.

Recent reports from a whistleblower at AT&T allege that mountains of data-mining equipment were installed by a specially-recruited technician. This is all subject to a lawsuit by the Electronic Frontier Foundation , so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

If I was in America and making calls, I'd be sure to include "bomb, jihad, Allah, WMD, Bush, assassination" in every conversation.

The argument is that this protects American citizens from terrorism. Does anyone here agree with that?

What do you think the implications are for US and global citizens?

How might we work round the system?

[HStorm]

You don't work round a system like that, you just fight to scrap it.

Of course the alarmist noises about Islamic terrorism are all bollocks to justify the database. Knowledge is power, and power is something that the neocons just can't get enough of.

Amusing, albeit in a bitter way, that this embodies one respect in which the neoconservative Republicans completely contradict one of their own party's most cherished principles; the desire to see limited Government. This database is a classic example of 'growing' Government, increasing its resources and the reach of its tentacles, something which Republicans even as far down the line as Bush's own father prided themselves on being opposed to. The elephantiasis of centralised Government in the US under GWB has alarmed many in his own party, which is one of the key reasons why he faces growing opposition from the moderate Republicans who feel he is pushing too far (just as the lunatic neoconservative fringe oppose him because they feel he doesn't go far enough).

[modeski]

News just in: The US Government has filed a motion to seek dismissal of the EFF's lawsuit against AT&T. From Reuters:

tinyurl.com/n7o8s

WASHINGTON, May 13 (Reuters) - The U.S. government filed a motion on Saturday to intervene and seek dismissal of a lawsuit by a civil liberties group against AT&T Inc. (T.N: Quote, Profile, Research) over a federal program to monitor U.S. communications.

The suit filed in the U.S. District Court of the Northern District of California accuses AT&T of unlawful collaboration with the National Security Agency in its surveillance program to intercept telephone and e-mail communications between the United States and people linked to al Qaeda and affiliated organizations.

The class-action suit was filed by San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation on behalf of AT&T customers in January -- before reports this week that AT&T and two other phone companies were secretly helping the government compile a massive database of phone calls made in the United States.

In its motion seeking intervention, posted on the court's Web site, the government said the interests of the parties in the lawsuit "may well be in the disclosure of state secrets" in their effort to present their claims or defenses.

"Only the United States is in a position to protect against the disclosure of information over which it has asserted the state secrets privilege, and the United States is the only entity properly positioned to explain why continued litigation of the matter threatens the national security," said the motion, dated May 12.

A hearing is scheduled for June 21 before federal Judge Vaughn Walker.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation has said in court filings that a former AT&T technician had approached the group in January to share details of the company's role in the surveillance program.

The revelation in December that the NSA was eavesdropping inside the United States without warrants on international calls and e-mails of terrorism suspects sparked an uproar.

On Thursday, USA Today reported that the NSA, helped by AT&T, Verizon Communications Inc. (VZ.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and BellSouth Corp. (BLS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), was secretly collecting phone records of tens of millions of people, and using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity.

U.S. President George W. Bush denied the government was "mining and trolling through" the personal lives of Americans.

[HStorm]

So now they're trying to fix court cases and even decide which cases are allowed to reach court. How long before they're taking the EFF to court to place a gagging order on them?

[modeski]

hstorm said:

So now they're trying to fix court cases and even decide which cases are allowed to reach court. How long before they're taking the EFF to court to place a gagging order on them?

I'm sure they already have people working on it. There's probably an entire department dedicated to undermining the constitution.

[Naselus]

It's just remarkable how thoroughly the US media has completely failed to jump on this.

I mean, three quarters of the administration have been quoted, in the past six months or so, as confirming that this telephone monitoring scheme is only on 'external calls'. No internal calls were going to be monitored at all. None. Well, apart from those between people in one place talking to those in another, using a telephone. But that's such a specific type that it was not felt worth mentioning.

Of course, the government has been swift to point out that they did not record the content of the conversations, merely the number ringing, the number rung, the length of the conversation, and anything else that they fancied knowing, so while the government needs to know you called the Home Alone Naughty Teen Hotline sixteen times last night for 48 seconds a time, they accept that the actual contents of the call are no business of theirs whatsoever. So that's alright then.

Naturally, when faced with the shocking truth that their government has been spying on their own citizens, and lied about it, the US media leaped in with condemnation. Fox News immediately hit back at the government with 'I'd rather be watched than blown up', CNN hammered the regime by pointing out that 'As long as you're not calling any terrorists then you've got nothing to worry about', and even the Canadian Jewish News adds 'Government measures to protect citizens moer through than ever.'. Faced with such startling attacks from those who were their staunchest allies must surely have Bushco reacting in terror. Or something.

[modeski]

naselus said:

Fox News...'I'd rather be watched than blown up', CNN ...'As long as you're not calling any terrorists then you've got nothing to worry about'.

It's not the most surprising thing in the world that the "mainstream" media have sided with the government on this issue, but in a functioning democracy you'd think there would be some criticism. But no.

For me, the most shocking thing has been to talk to people who actually agree with this idea that if you've nothing to hide there is no problem. Now, to any free-thinking person, the problems with the kind of universal surveillance that have been confirmed as going on for years are glaring, but there are some people who fail to grasp the importance of personal privacy.

To be perfectly frank, it pisses me off; this type of complaceny has seen the creeping erosion of civil rights, and the powers that be continue to deny its true extent, and furthermore have tacit approval from the knuckleheads who are either apathetic or brainwashed.

[HStorm]

modeski said:

For me, the most shocking thing has been to talk to people who actually agree with this idea that if you've nothing to hide there is no problem. Now, to any free-thinking person, the problems with the kind of universal surveillance that have been confirmed as going on for years are glaring, but there are some people who fail to grasp the importance of personal privacy.

Well, beyond that, knowledge is power. The more knowledge a Government has of you, the more power it has over you, and all the more so when it has knowledge of you that is has no business possessing.

Even more than that though, all defnitions in the 'nothing-to-hide' argument are arbitrary. With the recent growth of legislation and law-enforcement in Western countries, many things that were perfectly acceptable at the end of the second millennium have become illegal early in the third, and thus they have become something to hide. There's nothing solid to prevent the phenomenon spreading further, so saying, "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about," is a fallacy, because what's okay this week may not be okay next week.

But in any case, Mod, you are quite correct in that people's private lives that are simply none of the business of bureaucrats and politicians. People are perfectly entitled to insist on keeping the details of their private lives to themselves, which is a principle that should be maintained for its own sake, as much as for the practical reasons stated above.